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||    Pope Shenouda    ||    Father Matta    ||    Bishop Mattaous    ||    Fr. Tadros Malaty    ||    Bishop Moussa    ||    Bishop Alexander    ||    Habib Gerguis    ||    Bishop Angealos    ||    Metropolitan Bishoy    ||

The Eucharist

4 Gifts & 3 Responsibilities

 

H.G Bishop Moussa

 

4 Gifts:

1 - Through Eucharist I will be abiding in the Lord.

2 - Through Eucharist I can take the intercessions of the saints.

3 - Through the Eucharist Iíll become a member in the body of the Lord Ė

thatís the church.

4 - And through the Eucharist I am going to be saved Ė salvation.

These four gifts are the gifts of the Eucharist.

 

Unified with the Lord.

Communion with the Saints - asking their intercessions.

A member in the body of Christ united to the believers around me.

Saved by the blood of the Lord by the sacrifice of the Lord.

But these gifts are not without responsibilities. These responsibilities can

be:

1 - Spiritual strife. As mentioned in the Bible, examine yourself. One

must examine himself before taking from the Eucharist.

2 - Service inside the church.

3 - Witnessing outside the church.

These are the gifts and the responsibilities of the Eucharist.

And we need to contemplate upon these seven points.

(1) Abiding in Christ:

The Eucharist gives me the top of knowledge of knowing Christ. Why?

Because we start by knowing Christ by intellect first and then after

knowing something about Christ we start to have an affectionate relation

through our hearts our prayers our communication with God Jesus

Christ. But this is not sufficient. We go deeper in our knowledge of Christ

in having experiences in our every day life different situations of life. I

experience the Lord in my everyday life. Difficult situations and this is

the knowledge out of experience not intellect and not emotions but

experience.

But the talk is coming when in the Eucharist I am uniting myself with the

Lord and this is the top of knowledge - maximum because I am going to

know Jesus Christ from his inside and he will know me from my inside.

We are going to be one. Because he said ďWhoever eats my body and

drinks my blood will abide in me and I in himĒ. This is the top of

knowledge this knowledge out of union. First itís just intellect - data.

Yeh, there is one God, this God trion and the trion God is having Father

Son and the Holy Spirit and the Son is the infinite wisdom and he is the

law. He is the second person in Gods head and then he was incarnated

and became man and was crucified on my behalf in order to fulfil the

penalty of death instead of me and to shed His blood in order to cleanse

me by His blood. There is in the Old Testament a saying without shedding

blood no remission of sins and then He died and then He was

resurrected, He ascended to heaven, sent the Holy Spirit and founded

the church. Data. Just information, this is the informative Christianity.

Its good, sure, because without this data Iím not going to have the proper

faith in Christ. Therefore itís the intellectual level of knowledge.

Then I move deeper to have the affectionate knowledge. I start to speak

with Jesus Christ my Lord. I start to love Him, to feel His love, to be in

touch with Him day and night, to speak with Him, to listen to His voice in

the gospel. And to listen to His voice inside myself speaking in my heart.

Iím going to love Him. Iím going to sing hymns for Him. Because there is

now affectionate knowledge not only intellectual.

Not yet there is a third level, that is the experiential knowledge. It is

different because I had many difficult situations in my life. I asked the

Lord to be with me and He was with me and He got me out of this

difficult situation and He transformed the curse to be a blessing, the

darkness to be light, the enslavement to be liberty. He gave me a lot of

spiritual gifts. Now I experience the Lord in my everyday life, in

different situations of life. He is not God in the highest. He is not God in

my heart. He is God in my conduct and my behaviour and situations of

life experiences. I was entering an exam and I felt his presence. I was

attacked by certain sin and I felt that he could get me out of it. I was

enslaved by smoking, by anything else, by sensual types of lust and love

and so on but now he liberated me. I was sad in a certain situation when

I prayed He gave me condolences and peace. This experience is not yet

finished now in Eucharist I have the Lord Himself inside me. I am no

more just a human being. I am a divine human being because I have the

Lord inside of me. God is residing inside of me. The unlimited came to

the limited the infinite came to the finite and therefore I feel that I am

enjoying something super-transcendent something I cannot imagine Ė

unbelievable. This word that you always say when you are surprised Ė

something unbelievable. Yes, this unbelievable is now believable. And

not only to be just belief but to be practiced and to be felt. To have the

Lord inside of us Jesus Christ inside us. He will change my life. He will

give me, so to speak a super power. To be supernatural, why can you say

no to sin. Because you are supernatural through Jesus Christ residing

inside of you not through yourself. And this is Eucharist. Eucharist simply

makes the limited person having unlimited capacities through Jesus

Christ residing inside of me. Therefore this is the first gift that I can take

through Eucharist and through our beloved Lord Jesus Christ. He was not

incarnated just to live inside St Mary for nine months and He leaves us -

No. He was not incarnated unifying Himself to a human nature and then

He leaves the human nature before ascending to heaven Ė No. He didnít

ascend to heaven by His divinity without His humanity, He took His

humanity with Him. Now itís a union once and forever between humanity

and divinity. Yes, in Jesus Christ its another type of union but we are

enjoying a spark, a power, an energy out of this union. And you know

that Jesus when he resurrected from the dead he said to Mary Magdalene

I am going to my Father who is your Father. My God who is your God. He

is trying to say that I am one with the Father. The divinity and humanity

in Jesus Christ Ė the union differs because He is through His body the

fullness of divinity is dwelling. But we are not gods, we are still human

beings. He is the Son of God by nature. I am the son of God by adoption.

Much more different isnít it? Not the same blood is it? Even in everyday

life when someone is adopted itís different to someone who is from the

same nature or same body of the dad and the mum. And therefore, yes,

we are unified to the God, but, a big but, we are still human beings and

itís much different to being the Son of God capital ĎSí and the son of God

small Ďsí. Capital ĎSí that is Jesus Christ being one with the Father one of

the Holy Trinity. United humanity and divinity, fullness of divinity and to

be the son small Ďsí a type of adoption. He adopted us, He got us from

the garbage and He put us on the chairs. Therefore, this is the first gift

that we have in our Lord Jesus Christ Ė abiding in the Lord. Imagine, I

canít leave this point so I will leave it for you to contemplate upon. You

are going to have divinity inside of you. You canít say I am weak. Weak

why when God is inside of you? I am enslaved. Enslaved why when God is

inside of you and He is the liberator and He can set you free. You canít

say I am sad when you have all the peace inside of you Ė the Prince of

Peace. I am puzzled, why? You have the light of the world inside of you.

Yes we are in different situations having these feelings but quickly we go

to the Lord, we take the Holy Communion, we enjoy the presence of the

Lord inside us. Then all these problems are going to vanish and disappear

even if more and more are coming on the road I am sure, through Jesus

Christ, I can defeat that world, the world at large.

Abiding in the Lord.

(2) Intercessions of the Saints:

This is something that also gives you honour privilege and power. You are

not one you are many because all the saints are with you. Watching your

struggle. Exactly like what was ok near the gymnasium in the days of

persecution when they started to throw the Christians and then they

opened the dens of the lions and the lions come out and start to eat the

Christians something agonising and the pagans in the stadium are

clapping. Happy because the Christians are killed and sacrificed by the

lions. Lions here are a symbol of Satan. And the Christians are struggling

with Satan. And Satan is trying to overcome us. But donít be afraid

because thousands of saints are in the stadium and heaven itself is

looking upon you caring for you. Itís the cloud of witnesses as mentioned

in the Bible. They are witnesses watching us. Not watching us passively,

encouraging us, praying for us, interceding on our behalf in order to

defeat the lion that is Satan. Satan lost his power through Jesus Christ

donít forget that you are not only under the supervision and watching

and support of the saints but you have Jesus inside of you. Therefore, St

Ignatius the Theophorus said when the lions are hesitant to eat me I will

tease it in order to let it eat me. He was ready and he said I want to be a

bread for the Lord. They were ready to die simply because they know

that after this there is eternity and in Jesus Christ we have not only this

life with God but eternity. And he said ďwhoever eats my body and

drinks my blood will have eternal life and I will resurrect him from the

deadĒ. Therefore, you have a lot of witnesses watching and supporting

and interceding and praying. Take care the clouds are high but near. The

clouds are really outside the globe but very close. Thatís why with the

aeroplane we go above the clouds. And even The World Trade Centre

and Empire State Building has something metal that plays with the

clouds. The clouds are separated but near. The saints also went above to

heaven but they are very close to us. The clouds are always white and

the saints are holy and white. The clouds are always giving rains and the

saints are giving blessings to us and therefore we are living in this cloud

of saints. Even church makes the heavens above and the stars are a blue

colour and Jesus Christ is embracing the whole universe therefore

evangelists and you find the Saints are all over all around the church.

Come in touch with the saints ask for their intercessions. I remember

once I had a serious problem in my life something related to my future

life. Why didnít I ask St Mary to take care of it? St Mary is so calm, it took

one month and two and three and nothing was solved, the problem was

more complicated. So I came before her icon and said to her how come

you have left me and you must interfere and so on. Now while I was

coming outside the church I found the icon of St George. When I saw St

George I went to speak to him but then I got embarrassed from St Mary. I

said how can you let me speak to someone else, I will not speak to him.

The next day she made like a miracle in my life, really. The Saints are

very close and very near and they love us from the bottom of their

hearts. And that is why in the liturgy you find the deacon telling us that

there are saints with us and angels and look to the east and you will find

the Cherubim and Seraphim. And Abouna when he is finished he lets the

angel go the angel of sacrifice remember us in front of the Lord. Actually

heavens came to earth and there is some sort of unity between heaven

and earth through the Eucharist.

(3) Members in the Body of the Lord:

You feel that you have become a member in the body of Christ. As

mentioned in Corinthians 1:10 that we drink from one cup and eat from

one bread. And when we pray only on one bread. I prayed with another

Orthodox churches and I found them putting three or four breads and

prayed on it because they say there are a lot of people and you find

there bread is very small. We would never do this. We say it has to be

one bread so that we can all be one in Christ. Now this oneness in Christ

gives you the support all the believers around you are praying for you

and supporting you and serving you and loving you, caring for you sharing

everything with you. This feeling of oneness in the church. Yes we are

different but we are homogenous. Each member or organ in the human

body has a different function, different structure. But this difference is

not division. Itís just different tasks for the benefit of the body at large.

And therefore we live this oneness in the Lord. Yes I am different from

you, we have different gifts, different personalities and despite that we

are one in Christ. And this difference gives some sort of richness,

variety. If we are all one organ repeated we can not form a body as St

Paul said. If we are all hands, hands, hands, we can not form a body. If

we are all eyes, eyes, eyes this does not make a body. There must be

eyes, ears, nose and so on. And therefore we differ but we are

homogenous. We have the same goal and always this oneness comes

through something that the fathers taught us. They say if this is A and

this is B and this is C as long as we are on the circumference we are

separated from each other. To get these three balls for example closer

let A come towards the centre B move towards the centre, C move

towards the centre. As long as we are moving towards the centre we are

going to be close, close, close and in the centre only we are going to be

unified in Christ. This can be the husband this can be the wife this can

be the kids. Really, they can be the churches they can be the members

of any congregation or any committee. When we have one goal that is

our Lord Jesus Christ then we are going to be unified and we are going to

become one in Christ.

(4) Salvation:

Now, the last gift is Salvation. And its something you hear in every

liturgy. After Abouna finishes the mass he lifts the plate / tray with the

body of the Lord and says given for us for Salvation, remission of sins and

eternal life to those who partake from it. Salvation, because this is the

blood of the Lord. Look, the blood of the Lord that we take through the

Eucharist saves us how?

1. The blood forgives the past Ė itís in the Bible, without shedding blood

there is no forgiveness of sins.

2. It purifies the present. The blood of Jesus purifies us from every sin. It

purifies us now.

3. Sanctifies the future. Jesus to sanctify us suffered the pains outside

the doors of Jerusalem.

4. Gives God to abide in me and I in him. Now I am going to be stable in

Christ.

5. Gives me eternal life.

What else can give us these five gifts other than the blood of Jesus

Christ?

Lets say them again.

1. Forgives the past

2. Purifies the present

3. Sanctifies the future, these are verses from the Bible.

4. Abide in me and abide in Him

5. Gives me eternal life Ė and this is the salvation.

Yes, itís very good to have all these gifts from the Eucharist but no gift is

without responsibility. No pain without a gain and also no gain without

pain. But the pain here is lovely because you are going to have a lot of

gains out of this.

(1) Spiritual Strife:

If you want to enjoy the blessings of the Eucharist you have to have some

spiritual struggle & strife. Look His Holiness Pope Shenouda says ďwho is

the spiritual person? He is the one whose body is controlled by his spirit

and his spirit is controlled by the Holy Spirit. Again? Who is the spiritual

person? The one whose body is controlled by his spirit - the human spirit.

And his spirit is controlled by the Holy Spirit. There is much difference

between the human spirit and the Holy Spirit. The human spirit is limited

or unlimited? Limited. Sinful or not sinful? Sinful, it can sin. And

therefore despite we start by saying the body is controlled by the spirit

but this spirit needs the Holy Spirit to control us. And this is our spiritual

strive. You are all the time struggling against your body, your lust, your

senses. Against those sins that are in this world. And this struggle is

supported by your spirit belonging to what and your spirit is supported

by the Holy Spirit who can purify you and give you the power for self

control. They always put labels saying ďSay NO to drugsĒ They are saying

NO how? Say NO to smoking or to whatÖ etc. Abstain from sexual

immoralities. I remember I was on a craft with Anba Thomas and while

we were on the airplane I was sitting with Anba Thomas and a third

person in the third seat. He was holding a newspaper. The big heading of

the newspaper, Anba Thomas pointed it out to me and said ďlook at the

heading of the newspaperĒ Ė the main headline. So I looked and found it

was had written ĎThe Only Protection from HIV is abstinenceí. The ONLY

protection Ė they are not tricking them by saying Ďsafe sexí no. There is

no such thing as safe sex. They say donít hang your life on a piece of

rubber. Really, they say that to them in America now. And they say

instead of safe sex, save sex. But how, take abstain, Iím weak. Yes, you

are weak but God is strong. If you have the Holy Spirit then you will be

successful in your spiritual strive. You are going to nourish yourself

spiritually, you are going to confess whenever you sin, you are going to

try not to sin again, you are going to nourish yourself through the Bible

through the church sacraments, through the church meetings, the

church and spiritual readings and so on. You are going to nourish yourself

spiritually in order to be fit for having the Lord living inside you.

Therefore this is one of the responsibilities that we have. Spiritual

strive.

(2) Service:

It is a responsibility being a member in the body you have to be serving.

No member without function except the so called in our body Ė the

appendix. The appendix in the past had a function. It was digesting the

cellulous when we were vegetarians. After we started eating meat and

entered the crowd and the cholesterol and these things that was it all

these things began to shrink, shrink, shrink disuse atrophy so it became a

little thing whenever the surgeon can get access to it even if it is not

inflamed he will remove it as it has no use. Itís an appendix without a

function. So you are not an appendix, you are a member. Being a

member in the body of Christ you have something to do. You may

preach, you may teach, you may serve the poor, you may serve the sick

people, you may take care of certain cases, you may educate the

children, a lot of functions. I leave you to read Romans 12 to find twelve

functions there. Twelve services in Romans 12. These are services inside

the church. Donít say I am not a servant, you can be a servant. The

church is full of service and you have to be an active member, a working

member, a giving one Ė this is responsibility number two. I canít be a

passive one who enters and prays and has communion and goes home, I

donít speak to anyone and donít want problems. You are very passive Ė

you have to do something in the church and we can select for you a

special type of service. And you can discover a type of service to

participate in. And that is why the second responsibility of Eucharist is

service.

(3) Witnessing:

Last is witnessing. We are not going to isolate you from society. This is

very wrong. You have to witness for the Lord in society. And as you

listen to the liturgy you hear the priest saying for every time you eat this

bread and drink thisÖ you what proclaim Ė what does proclaim mean (te

basharoony be mawty) you proclaim my death so you are not telling

Jesus Christ to the Christians and the believers they already know it but

you are proclaiming the death of Christ to those who are around you.

They ask you what is this and why did He die and you start to speak

about the redemption and how God became man in order to redeem us

and also to dwell inside us and to teach us and therefore we are proud of

Jesus Christ God incarnate because God became near to us and now He is

ready to be inside us through the Eucharist. You proclaim my death and

confess my resurrection and remember me till I come therefore I have

something to tell the world. Therefore we are longing to have many

people to become Christian. The world now is in bad need of Christ and

Christ is waiting for everybody to work with Him in building the kingdom

of God and preparing humanity for the second advent of Christ. You have

a role inside the church service outside the church is witnessing for the

Lord by your deeds by your model. Look if you have some concentration

very quickly we are having six analogies for the believer and his role in

the world and in society. One, He said you are the light of the church.

Did He say the salt of the church? Or the salt of the earth Ė all the earth.

Number three He said you are the ambassadors of Christ another time He

told us you are the aroma, which means you are the flavour you are the

perfume. Another time He said you are the message read by all people Ė

message. And another time He said you are like the yeast or the leaven

in the dough. Whatís the difference between the leaven and the dough?

Leaven has the bacteria. Like when I was in the monastery making the

korban they gave us the leaven to activate it in some warm water. So we

would put it in boiling water. Straight away the bacteria would die. I

canít see if it has died or not. It is something which is microscopic so we

then put the yeast in the dough and leave it for a few hours and when we

return we find the dough as it is because the bacteria is gone. You have

life inside as Jesus Christ for me to live as Christ He is my life. If you are

a living Christian, if you have life inside you, Christ inside you, then you

are going to witness for the Lord all the people around you will see the

light of the Lord shining through you and they are going to glorify God.

QUESTIONS & COMMENTS:

Sayedna when you said that the Spiritual Person is controlled by his spirit

and this spirit is controlled by the Holy Spirit you said that the persons

spirit is limited it can sin Ė the human spirit so this is not the verse that

says ďthe born of God does not sinĒ?

You put here ďBorn of GodĒ. So you have put who here now body and

human spirit and plus who? Plus God. As long as God is inside me I donít

sin. But, a big But, God is not always inside of me. I sometimes say to God

close your eyes for a bit I want to commit this sin and I have my free will

or not? I have my free will even in baptism after we baptize a baby and

he is born of Christ he received the second birth. Does this mean that sin

was cancelled inside of him. No. The old nature is still inside him but in a

very limited way. And the new man in Christ was created in him. Now,

day after day, year after year according to his free will he will get either

the old nature to flourish and suppress the new or the new to flourish

and suppress the old therefore itís the struggle still working God is inside

us but we have our free will still. Therefore we may commit sins. But

after I commit sin I go back to the Lord and repent.

Sayedna could you please give us a brief history of the recent history of

the ecumenical movement for people who are interested in ecumenical

issues or ecumenical affairs, do you advise us to have combined activities

with other Christian denominations or what is your advise on that?

Leave this question for a while if there are any questions about the

Eucharist and donít forget this question.

Sayedna in regards to the Eucharist is there any precautions because the

tradition in Egypt after taking the communion there are some

precautions?

Yes there are precautions mainly are spiritual in order not to commit any

sin after having communion because I have a blessing inside of me a

power inside me take care of sins this is number one. Number two, the

church in order to remind you all the time that you took a blessing you

took a gift you took God Himself we say donít walk bare foot or you may

bleed and if you bleed this is not good because you must try to preserve

the blood inside, but if it happens accidentally then its no problem

because imagine after we pray on the baptistery the water for the

baptistery has the mayroon. There is a prayer that abouna prays so the

water can return as it was. So God can take care of himself its no

problem. But it is a matter of keeping you alert. Donít take a bath, donít

swim please remember that you took the body of Christ. Something like

that, itís a matter of giving you the opportunity to concentrate on the

gift that you took. But it should not be taken too literally but it is good to

be committed to this. They say donít take out the pip from your mouth,

why remember that you took the body of the Lord. So be cautious but at

the sane time more important than these materialistic things is to be

cautious spiritually. You can let bad words come out of your mouth that

is more dangerous than the pips.

Sayedna we know that baptism is death and resurrection with the Lord so

why our old nature didnít die completely and vanish?

I just mentioned if our old nature could disappear and vanish completely

then I lost my free will. Right? I have created a puppet. It comes out and

never does wrong. You ask him does he love Christ and he says I canít

love anyone else. So commit a sin and he says he cannot. Do you wish

you could? I havenít my free will. Are you going to the Lord by your own

decision. My decision why, He is the one who has made me like this. I am

going to lose my free will. God is giving you both the old and the new.

Leaving the old suppressing it by baptism and creating the human side

after that either you flourish the new and get it to be prevalent and the

old you are all the time suppressing it or reverse it is up to you to

decide.

Sayedna a lot of times we hear we died with Christ on the cross and

actually when we partake of the communion we are in the body and the

blood I was wondering if you can explain that?

Thatís in the body of Christ, itís a good phrase it means that we are going

to be members in the body of Christ because this is the body of Christ.

The korban becomes the body of Christ therefore, it is right to say we

became part of this korbana and this korbana now is inside us unified

with us. So I think this is right we are going to be parts inside the body of

Christ and the body of Christ will be inside all of us. Therefore, it is a

matter of union so simply we are united together. We were united

together and we became members in the body of Christ that is this

korbana is now the body of Christ.

Sayedna with the point on membership and the circle that your grace

drew you said that there could be three different parties we could have

father, mother and children or the church and the congregation and

weíre all moving to the same goal to be unified in Christ what if one

party isnít, how do you get the other parties to have the same goals as

you?

Iíll draw another triangle like that. Look this is Jesus Christ and husband

and wife. There is love tracing from Jesus to the husband and from the

husband to Jesus. From Jesus to the wife and from the wife to Jesus.

Then it will pass from the husband to to wife and from the wife to the

husband. Now let me break this. The husband lost his relation with God

what will occur? The base of the triangle will drop down but not yet

broken because still the wife is in good relation with Jesus now if this

link is broken then this house will fall down. Therefore, if one of the two

partners is sticking to the Lord the house will still be in tact. Yes, itís

agitating and itís suffering but still in tact. If the two lost their relation

with Jesus Christ then this house will fall down. Thatís why we ask one

of the two partners to be patient and to always try to be in touch with

the Lord and to pray and to wait in some sort of durability otherwise this

house will fall down. And that is what happens, you find the house fell

down because the two partnersÖI was reconciling a couple in which the

wife was totally dependant on her mother. The father of the son told the

mother to let the problem move on. Let the children reconcile and to

stop listening to the devil. The mother said Satan is here and here and

started to kiss Satan. We couldnít reconcile the children until after the

death of the mother. So anyone having no relation with God will

destabilise the home. If the two partners are leaving God itís finished.

Sayedna could you please give us a brief history of the recent history of

the ecumenical movement for people who are interested in ecumenical

issues or ecumenical affairs, do you advise us to have combined activities

with other Christian denominations or what is your advice on that?

We are in an era now called the era of ecumenicalism where we have

relations of love between the Christians all over the world and we have

ecumenical bodies and we as the Coptic church are members in these

ecumenical bodies. We are members in the World Council of Churches

and His Holiness was one of the presidents for seven years for the World

Council of Churches. We are members in the Middle East Council of

Churches and His Holiness is still one of the four presidents of this Middle

East Council. We are members in the All Africa Council of Churches. I

know that you are members in the Australian and the American and the

Canadian Councilís of Churches. Sure it is very good to be in love with

the Christians all over but in love we are one, in faith and doctrines we

differ. Therefore, we are starting dialogues. In the days of His Holiness

Pope Shenouda we are in dialogue with most of the Christians all over

the Christendom. We are in dialogue with the Catholic Church many

years ago. In dialogue with the Greek Orthodox and the family of the

Orthodox with the Anglican, Presbyterian, Lutheran, the reformed

churches, with the Swedish churches, the Norwegian churches we are in

dialogue with all the churches of the world. But this dialogue means love

and then concerning faith we start to negotiate and discuss the

differences and tell them what our belief is on each issue. We reached

some good achievements with the fifteen churches of the Greek we

reached an agreed statement we are signing it now. After that we and

the Greek are going to be one. With the Catholic we reached to and

agreement concerning Christology of Christ. We studied purgatory and

we studied the procession of the Holy Spirit and actually our doctrines

are very precise because they are straight forward and biblical and

patristic. And therefore we benefit for sure by giving our Orthodox view

to these beloved brothers and sisters and they are starting to appreciate

it and then weigh it and as I notice they start to neglect these negative

things. They have stopped talking about purgatory now. I was speaking

with one of my Catholic friends called Anba Youhanna while we were in

dialogue about purgatory we went out to eat and we were arguing with

love about purgatory which is against redemption and against the bible.

So I said to Sayedna when you go to console someone who has lost

somebody do you tell them that there beloved one has gone to be burnt

in purgatory is that a comfort to them? He said Anba Moussa I donít bring

up that topic be quiet. Yes they start to neglect purgatory because it is

anti-biblical. So that is a good achievement alone. With all other

denominations we are in dialogue its therefore love and we have an

ecumenical youth committee in Egypt they participate together in

anything that are not doctrinal. Just the love some hymns and so on to

express the Christianity is one religion but we differ afterwards in other

doctrines and we come into dialogue with them concerning this. And that

is why we encourage the ecumenical thing but we are not ready to move

from one denomination to the other we must stick to our church and our

doctrines because they are very correct.

Our church believes in one baptism but how come when someone joins

our church they are rebaptised?

Itís not rebaptism we believe in one baptism. We say that the baptism

was done under certain circumstances that is the mutual anathemas. You

know the anathema that is the ex-communication and the two churches

are ex-communicating each other in history. Now these anathemas are to

be lifted. Even with the Greek we had anathemas but we started now

through the agreed statement to lift the anathemas then we are going to

accept each other without repeating the baptism. Actually it is not

repetition we donít consider it legal because of the anathema Ė there

was ex-communication and they believe the same thing. If you pray

things will move because we are with the Greek it is finished and with

the Catholic we need some negotiations because it is an illegal thing.

When you read the agreement with the Greek Orthodox you will find a

big item called Lifting ex-communications pray so that it can be lifted.

The Catholic church is a closed circle writing the sacraments and the

Orthodox Church the sacraments are valid inside the church. If you move

from this to that and that to this then you need to lift the anathemas

otherwise the baptism must be done. The church sacraments are valid

inside this closed circle if you move to another circle enter from the

door of baptism you are going to move your circle.

But I am not really asking about change of denomination if the guy is still

in the same denomination but will he have the Holy Spirit after baptism?

Sure, and the sacraments in the tradition of the church I mean the

Catholic, Greek Orthodox and the churches that believe in sacraments.

For example the Protestant church they donít believe in sacraments,

even the baptism is not considered a sacrament (in the Protestant

church) he himself says it is not a sacrament and is not important Ė how

can I consider it important. That is why if he comes to me he should be

baptised so that he can have the baptism that is a sacrament. The

baptism he has had is not a sacrament. They never call it a sacrament,

they call it a symbol of Christianity. We say no itís not a symbol itís a

sacrament.

||    Pope Shenouda    ||    Father Matta    ||    Bishop Mattaous    ||    Fr. Tadros Malaty    ||    Bishop Moussa    ||    Bishop Alexander    ||    Habib Gerguis    ||    Bishop Angealos    ||    Metropolitan Bishoy    ||

||    The Orthodox Faith (Dogma)    ||    Family and Youth    ||    Sermons    ||    Bible Study    ||    Devotional    ||    Spirituals    ||    Fasts & Feasts    ||    Coptics    ||    Religious Education    ||    Monasticism    ||    Seasons    ||    Missiology    ||    Ethics    ||    Ecumenical Relations    ||    Church Music    ||    Pentecost    ||    Miscellaneous    ||    Saints    ||    Church History    ||    Pope Shenouda    ||    Patrology    ||    Canon Law    ||    Lent    ||    Pastoral Theology    ||    Father Matta    ||    Bibles    ||    Iconography    ||    Liturgics    ||    Orthodox Biblical topics     ||    Orthodox articles    ||    St Chrysostom    ||   

||    Bible Study    ||    Biblical topics    ||    Bibles    ||    Orthodox Bible Study    ||    Coptic Bible Study    ||    King James Version    ||    New King James Version    ||    Scripture Nuggets    ||    Index of the Parables and Metaphors of Jesus    ||    Index of the Miracles of Jesus    ||    Index of Doctrines    ||    Index of Charts    ||    Index of Maps    ||    Index of Topical Essays    ||    Index of Word Studies    ||    Colored Maps    ||    Index of Biblical names Notes    ||    Old Testament activities for Sunday School kids    ||    New Testament activities for Sunday School kids    ||    Bible Illustrations    ||    Bible short notes

||    Pope Shenouda    ||    Father Matta    ||    Bishop Mattaous    ||    Fr. Tadros Malaty    ||    Bishop Moussa    ||    Bishop Alexander    ||    Habib Gerguis    ||    Bishop Angealos    ||    Metropolitan Bishoy    ||

||    Prayer of the First Hour    ||    Third Hour    ||    Sixth Hour    ||    Ninth Hour    ||    Vespers (Eleventh Hour)    ||    Compline (Twelfth Hour)    ||    The First Watch of the midnight prayers    ||    The Second Watch of the midnight prayers    ||    The Third Watch of the midnight prayers    ||    The Prayer of the Veil    ||    Various Prayers from the Agbia    ||    Synaxarium